| Entry: To Be Dissident |  | = Official Comment |
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| From LSto |
| F*N A JSto, F*N A. |
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| From LSto |
| One more thing. I have a long held belief that I cannot support any war that I would not fight myself; I agree wholeheartedly with you on this point. |
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://www.geocities.com/exastra/home.htm |
excellent! well said. and thank you so much for saying it, for reminding us all that we should walk through the looking glass.
stand up, step up, speak up.
art immitates life immitates art.
of course they are related. the obvious often isn't so. |
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| From Rick |
I wont argue in favor of or against the war but please don’t say the war isn’t worth fighting if you haven’t been there. It cheapens the sacrifices made by many brave people.
*Disclaimer: Yes I am in the military and no I am not a republican. |
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From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com |
The issue that I have with the war is that the Government sent our troops there under false pretense. If Bush said, "Saddam is a tyrant and murderer and we should have run him out years ago and we're going to correct that mistake," that would have been one thing. But to say, "He's got nukes and chemical weapons and we have to go in there before he can use them" when the evidence was pretty damn shakey at best, and to use THAT as the justification is what pisses me off. I worked for the DoD as a civilan for 4 years and now I work for a Firm that consults to the DoD and I don't appreciate being lied to by my Governmental leaders. Just tell me why we're really going in there in the first place. Don't sex it up with Nigerian yellow cake connections and WMDs that don't exist.
I'm with Jess on this one.
Now that the troops are there, of course, I am fully behind supporting them, ensuring that they have the proper armor and weapons and support they need to be successful. But I'm not happy about how they got there. |
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From Peter
Website: http://www.peterdewolf.com |
As a Canadian, I thought that since we are not in Iraq I would feel a little further removed from the entire thing.
Sadly that is not the case. Just the mention of WMDs annoys the crap out of me. |
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| From NoSpam |
Being ex-military, I can say it is fine to disagree with the war, you can still do that and not cheapen the men & women fighting it. They are doing thier job (most of them), they don't get to pick and choose who thier commander in chief tells them to fight.
For my personal beliefs I do not think anyone should be able to vote or run for office who has not served in the armed forces full time. |
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| From Jessica |
"Please don’t say the war isn’t worth fighting if you haven’t been there. It cheapens the sacrifices made by many brave people."
How does this entry cheapen the sacrifices of brave people?
I disagree.
As others have said, it is possible to not support a war but to support and honor the efforts of the troops involved.
I composed a long comment reply to this, but then refrained from posting because this particular subject is not what the entry is about in the first place.
How others interpret or misinterpret the words philosophically in terms of the finer points and the separate parts of this complicated issue, of this issue that has become an impossible position, is up to them. |
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| From Jonathan |
Perhaps the posts focused on artistry and your personal experience generate more reader involvement because the site is geared towards those subjects. Given your position and ambitions, I am far more likely to involve myself in a dialogue on this site if the topic is entertainment or a personal anecdote.
I appreciate that entertainment is related to government and politics, but that doesn't mean I will look to a website about the former to enlighten me about the latter.
If creating a living conversation in the comments section is your aim, I suggest a post which provides a more obvious starting place or point of access for your readers.
J
P.S. If you find a politician who doesn't lie to you, give him/her money and hand out fliers. |
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| From Kelli |
| I must say I generally do comment on the political side of things when you post it. And I must say I am generally in agreement with you. I do know people that are there, I know people that have been sent 1, 2, 3 times they made it back safe each time but who is to say if they will the next time. My problem with this war is that so many BRAVE AMERICANS are dying for a war being fought for no reason. We have Sadam, we have no WMD, and we have thousands of AMERICANS dying, more and more each day. There are so many other places including our home land that could use the help and supposrt of the troops we have sent to Iraq. But what can be done when you have an idiot calling the shots... I actually did vote this year so yes I am allowed to bitch about the current situation our country is in. Most of this is way off base for the topic but it is fun to rant. And another thought for those of you still reading and Jess... many people dont post on the poliical side because you never know when the man might be watching... And God forbid someone has something to say that the Man objects to... And please dont call me a liberal, I am neither a democrat or republican... I am just a simple American giving my simple opinion... Have a nice day! ps. pardon any spelling errors, I hate that this thing doesnt have a spell check.. |
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://www.geocities.com/exastra/home.htm |
hopefully getting back to the point i think Jess intended: the war we're in is a good and worthy topic of discussion, but it is only an aspect of what Jess was referring to. the main issue is that we, as-- not Americans, but as lovers of liberty-- must be willing to dare to question and oppose our government if the situation demands it. to take a more active part in creating a decent world, as it is in our power and talents to do.
to, as Ghandi said, be the change we wish to see in the world.
being a writer, i wrote an article called "For This Desirable End" at thesop.com commenting on the American Revolution and the importance of a revolutionary spirit in America.
quoting myself: "But I wonder if such independence minded individuals as The Founding Fathers might, today, be considered terrorists… charged with treason, sedition, and conspiracy to mutiny."
"These days, people who disagree with and oppose the Bush Administration, or just President Bush, are often called and criticized as UnAmerican or unpatriotic." |
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| From Rick |
I am all for speaking out against what you think is wrong. You can say anything anytime and I wont try to stop you, in fact ill defend your right to do it. I’m sorry if you think I missed the point of your post, and it was not my intention to hijack the comment section with some great argument. The part I take issue with is the words "it is not worth fighting". I feel that phrase does a disservice to those who have sacrificed when spoken by someone who was not there. Have you
ever had a friend killed in the war? Have you ever watched someone die because they were trying to pull an Iraqi kid out of the line of fire? Have you ever seen the smile of a female Iraqi that was just the first woman in the history of her family to vote? Those things may alter your outlook somewhat on what you think is and is not worth fighting for. I'm not saying the war is all roses, or that we haven't paid a horrible price but I just don’t feel that someone who isn’t involved should be judging the worth of the endeavor. I am not an eloquent writer like Jess is and I probably haven’t articulated myself as well as I could but I just felt compelled to speak my mind on that one part of the post. Thats all i'll say on the topic. |
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| From Jessica |
"I just don’t feel that someone who isn’t involved should be judging the worth of the endeavor."
It is simply my point that we are all involved. |
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| From Jonathan |
Perhaps a better way of saying:
"I just don’t feel that someone who isn’t involved should be judging the worth of the endeavor."
would be:
"Someone with no first hand understanding of war should not be judging the worth of the endeavor."
Context is tremendously important. Writing about dissidence and patriotic rebellion is easy, but finding meaningful ways to express and fulfill those ambitions is difficult. People (especially young people) should take extra care to consider how their language will resonate with people who are risking their life to actively solve serious problems (this applies to a much greater arena than military service).
J |
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| From SK |
Such a broad subject, easy to get riled up... I could just as easily make a case for war in Iraq as I could against it. A lot of things really aren't as black and white as they may seem(kind of like Curt's point).
Two observations without getting political. 1) That article could be reduced to a matter of perspective. 2) One could argue that the world is currently in a relative moment of peace. When has man not been at war? And 3, that's right 3, because it just popped into my head and I can - the pro/con factor of instant communication - was a time when by the time you heard of the war, the war was over. And media, not so much any liberal/conservative bias issue, but just the fact that they are essentially entertainment. The media prospers when things go wrong, and are constantly looking for a story whether one is there or not. I'm not saying that's bad, but like with the recent space shuttle launch, I got a vibe that some were a little disappointed it didn't blow up. |
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| From SK |
| Did you have an actual point, Jess? If so, could you dumb it down for me? |
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| From Jessica |
Well, yes: I said so above...
"It is simply my point that we are all involved."
This is an entry about discovery.
I can guide you no farther.  |
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From WestsideKef
Website: http://westsidekef.blogspot.com |
Like Peter, I come from the land where our last three leaders were not 'for' the war and would not send troops, and it seemed all we got was flack for it.
This Canadian however still prays for those who are there, and prays that those leading them send them home soon. |
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From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com |
"Someone with no first hand understanding of war should not be judging the worth of the endeavor."
Can't say I agree with this one.
And I'd like to point out that neither the President nor the Vice President have ANY experience in war and they seem to be calling the shots in this one.
Anyway, on to my point. I have no first hand understanding of how movies are made, but I can certainly have an opinion about which are crap and which are not. I agree that there are many Iraq citizens who are happy we are there. Additionaly, there are clearly some who are not happy. But just because we may be doing some good over there now doesn't take away from the fact that THERE WERE NO WMDs.
And I had an employee of mine over there for a while. As well as a co-worker. And I work with a huge number of former military officers, NCOs, and enlisted. |
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.greatestblogeverwritten.blogspot.com/ |
A journalist can write an article about a war.
An author can write a history book about a war.
But the greatest commentary comes from art. Art is what resonates and touches the soul.
Unfortunately, art is not born in a vacuum. The subject must be experienced and internalized to have real validity.
That's why we have so much garbage being produced today. People are so out of touch with what is going on around them. How is someone going to write something with substance and meaning if they are not involved and educated about the world they are writing about?
Art has the ability to inspire as well as placate. Do you want to be shielded from what the world is....or shown a vision of what it is....and could be?
It is about mirrors. When our leader's lack vision, so do we.
And as with mirrors, the reverse is true. |
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| From Jonathan |
"And I'd like to point out that neither the President nor the Vice President have ANY experience in war and they seem to be calling the shots in this one."
I hope that the President has highly qualified generals and advisors with an abundance of first hand experience consulting with him. I have no idea how much direct involvement the President takes with administration policy and war strategy, and I have no idea if the people advising him are dependable and suited for their job. My point is, we see the performers and rarely the writers, so a President's lack of military experience doesn't trouble me too much.
"I have no first hand understanding of how movies are made, but I can certainly have an opinion about which are crap and which are not."
I don't think movies and wars are analagous enough for this comparison.
However, your point is taken. I was restating an idea made by someone else, and my own spin on it was that anyone judging the worth of a violent conflict should be careful with their message.
J |
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| From LSto |
| Our foreign policy is often questionable at best. I would love to hear somebody make the case for a war in Iraq. Also, please leave out the stuff about voting, freedom, liberation, etc., etc., as those are not the reasons our President told us we went to war. (to hear the reasons we went to war, check out WMDs and connections to terrorism, or check out Paul Wolfowitz's comments in Vanity Fair about why we went to war) |
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| From LSto |
Paul Wolfowitz from Vanity Fair, 2003: “…we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason…there have always been three fundamental concerns. One is weapons of mass destruction, the second is support for terrorism, the third is the criminal treatment of the Iraqi people. Actually I guess you could say there's a fourth overriding one which is the connection between the first two. The third one by itself, as I think I said earlier, is a reason to help the Iraqis but it's not a reason to put American kids' lives at risk, certainly not on the scale we did it.”
Of course liberation of the Iraqi people is not a reason to go to war, because we as a country try to avoid such engagements, otherwise we would be involved in humanitarian missions all over the world. |
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| From EM |
| LSto - See UN Security Council Resolution 1441. |
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| From LSto |
The resolution has nothing to do with Wolfowitz's comments. He is saying the US would not commit troops to Iraq unless one of the first 2 reasons were true, in essence saying that helping other people is only worth it if our self interest is served.
That is a UN resolution, I was citing one of the architects of US policy.
And furthermore, the resolution turned out to be wrong and based on false pretenses. |
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| From LSto |
To clarify:
You have cited a UN resolution for going to war because Iraq had violated the ceasefire.
Yet I cited Wolfowitz, a self proclaimed warhawk and one of a few principal minds behind the Bush Doctrine, and his own assessment of why the UNITED STATES would go to war, not the UN. |
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| From LSto |
| After reading my last post I realize it looked angry, which was not the intention! |
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From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com |
| LSto - You should be angry. We all should be angry. We were mis-led. |
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| From LSto |
| I'm raging angry, just not at people who post here. My anger is towards the administration. |
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