JSDC
Entry: Maelstrom / Crossroads
Official= Official Comment

Official Comment From Jessica
Anyone else have trouble getting fully into the ending of last nightís episode because, from the teasers all week, we already knew Starbuck was going to die a faux-death?

And what are our guesses for what really happened?

(I really liked this episode, btw.)

From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
I "knew" she was going to "die", but not how, and the how is what made it interesting for me. Her reconciliation with "Leoben" and her destiny. I suspect she is a hybrid/ link between human and Cylon. Possibly one of the Five. Maybe Leoben is also. It seemed to me that her embracing of death was not running away, but a running towards.
She's not dead, but she won't be the same person if/when we see her again.
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
I hadn't seen any trailers for the episode, so wasn't "expecting" what happened.

That being said, I didn't really get the impression that Kara wouldn't be back, given that the whole "she's special" storyline hasn't come to fruition.

I did like the final scene with Adama and the model ship, though. Well acted.
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Official Comment From Jessica
Letís operate with the understanding that they would not kill a major, dynamic character this early in the series and in one quick episode (thatís at least a two episode event).

I agree about her coming back with new knowledge/new perspective that should aid the fleet in a new way. Thatís a little retarded however: I thought that was what was supposed to happen with Gaius after his learnings on the Cylon ship and regarding the Eye of Jupiter.

I didnít have Starbuck on my ďpossible CylonĒ list, mostly because if sheís a Cylon it messes up the story. It gives us little to hold onto in terms of what few characters we can count on as human, and not in a good way. So if they go that way I hope they can pull it off. (They most likely would: Theyíre solid.) From a storytelling point of view, however, it's pretty risky with a low percentage chance of working over just being a cheap twist.

So she comes back by:
1. Sheís a Cylon. (wack?)
2. Typical, magical Starbuck survival fashion. (likely)
3. Haunting another character, like Six does to Gaius. (reaching)
4. In flashback only. (boring)

From Rick
This may be a pump fake just to make us think she wont be back...but if you read this interview it does make one wonder as to if the character is done for.
http://www.thescifiworld.net/interviews/katee_sackhoff_01.htm
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Official Comment From Jessica
I had seen a few interviews to that effect, Rick. I'm voting pump-fake. Or our misunderstanding the comments.

And, speaking of major, short-haired blonde scifi characters who die:

Tasha Yar has a blog!
http://blog.denisecrosby.net/

From Kevin
Speaking of the model ship, did you hear what RDM said on his podcast? That was apparently a museum-quality model that they had rented, and Edward James Olmos just spontaneously decided to destroy it! Luckily, it was covered by insurance.
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
Gaius has never been disproven to be a Cylon. The Six prisoner is having the same kind of visions as he is, which is suggestive.
Just because they say he's not a Cylon or they don't know he is, doesn't mean he isn't. I interpret it as a fake-out.
Although I also think it unlikely they'd kill off a major character as unceremoniously as Yar was, it isn't impossible. And their allowing a major character to be killed would make a significant statement. Anything can happen, no one is safe. And I don't see a problem with having no security in knowing who is or is not a Cylon. I think it only add to the dramatic substance, with nothing is exactly what it seems. I don't see that as a cheap twist. I still think Gaeta is a Cylon (he gave Booomer the gun to shoot Adama). I see only 3 good possibilities for Starbuck's return:
1. she's a Cylon or Cylon-ish (possible, though not probable)
2. magical Starbuck survival (cheap/lame)
3. she's "special" or unique entity, as in blessed or divinely ordaned. Maybe a kind of Messiah. (my preferred method)
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Official Comment From Jessica
I heard about the ship. Good on the actor for not being too precious with it. wink

As for Gaeta handing Boomer something, I totally missed that, but C.Sto watched that episode recently and caught it. I wish I had the DVD so I could slow mo that scene. He was on my list, anyway. But he's on everyone's list, so that's not news.

And I still think it sucks that you don't have a few characters (in the case of what might happen with Starbuck) who you know for certain are human just like we have a few who we know for certain are Cylon.

In the end, whatever they do, I'm confident they'll pull it off: The writing has a fantastic track record. It's such a nice change to have a show worth talking about.

From Kyle
Here's proof that the Heavy Raider she saw was real and that it may have picked her up:

http://digg.com/television/
BSG_Proof_that_the_Heavy_Raider_Starbuck_saw_was_real
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Official Comment From Jessica
Thanks, Kyle.

Although unlikely, the more I think about it, the better and more interesting I think it could be if she is dead. For good.

What do you all say to that?

Official Comment From Jessica
PS: I am going up north soon to hang with the cast et cetera. Anything in particular you want me to find out?

From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
I assumed that she is either a Cylon and will be resurrected in their special "bodies-R-us" ship, or that she ejected and the raider picked her up (because her visions told her to pull the handle - her hand was on the eject handle at the end). I think her fan base and popularity is such that they wouldn't just kill her off. Killing Bobby or some of the regular pilots is one thing, killing Starbuck is something altogether different. This is Ron Moore, after all, not Joss Whedon.

Hope you are putting together a script to take up there with you.
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://www.geocities.com/exastra/home.htm
Whether or not Starbuck's death is a good thing depends on what they do with it, where it leads, what it adds to the story. If it serves the story, then I say go with it. I am also confident they can pull off anything. Towards the end, I began not liking Starbuck, so in that sense I don't mind her being dead. However, iwas interested in her destiny thread, and would like to see that developed.
Kyle's pic does given reason to think a ship really maybe was there-- which could rescue her.

(Joss Whedon is my master now!)

They aren't likely to give spoilers on your visit, and I don't really want any. Some behind the scenes anecdotes would be cool. Your impression of cast and sets. Dude, can you get a guest role? Even just a walk on?
Because that would totally be awesome.
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
The SCI FI Channel is affording some creative amateur filmmakers the opportunity to make their own BSG video, and it might get picked for a viewing on television during one of Battlestarís regular episodes.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/videomaker/
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
I'm all for killing off major characters as long as it advances the story. In this particular instance, I felt the "death" was kind of empty and pointless. I definitely think we'll be seeing Starbuck in some form again.

At one point in the 'vision' near the end, the following exchange takes place:

Kara: You're not Leoben.
Leoben: Never said I was. I'm here to prepare you to pass through the next door....to discover what lies in the space between life and death.

Is the space between life and death not what Lucy Lawless' cylon was seeking to discover? Related perhaps? And if he is not Leoben, who is he? A higher power? Is Kara a kind of messiah? Apparently her mother was 'preparing' her for something.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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Official Comment From Jessica
They just put me under confidentiality agreement because I am seeing the finale early.

That's crazy. Even Star Wars didn't do that. I can't think of any film I've screened early that has.

Not that I donít understand: Iím all for protecting story. (And wouldn't have revealed anything anyway.)

From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
You're seeing the finale early? What....did you win a sweepstakes or something?

I'm not jealous at all. Nope. Not me.
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From Mike
Website: http://herdingchaos.net
I had no idea that was going to happen. I watch all my tv with tivo. I skip most of the commercials and make sure to skip any preview to a show I like. I don't like them telling me snips of the show when I am already hooked. So when she "died" it was a total surprise to me. Which I liked.

My theroy: She is special. Don't know if she is one of the five or not, but I think there is going to be something about her that the cylons respect or know that they cannot mess with. And that she will gain insight that will help the fleet. I think she is either human or one of the five.

I think she ejected right before the explosion and that the raider (that did exist) picked her up.

I like guessing and talking about it. But I don't want to know the story until I watch it the way they intend to put it together. I think this has been one of the best stories on TV or even the silver screen in a very long time.
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From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
Something Dave Grant said got me thinking.

Kara: You're not Leoben.
Leoben: Never said I was. I'm here to prepare you to pass through the next door....to discover what lies in the space between life and death.


I'm going WAY out on a limb here.

Lets say god (or "the gods" depending on if you are a toaster or not) created humans (I'm talking about the fictional world here, hence no capitol "G"). If god/gods created the human race and suddenly most of it was wiped out, would he/she/they notice (or, I'm going to just start saying "he" from here on out)? I think he just might notice.

For example, if I have a big fish tank and a fish dies here and there I'll just take out the dead fish. But if suddenly all the fish die but one, I might pull that one out while I figure out what happened with the tank.

Maybe that is what has happened here. He looked around and said, "Shit! Where did all my people go?" And Starbuck was the one he plucked out to find out what is happening.

Or maybe, since I'm already WAY out here, she will be "changed" in some way and put back into the tank, so to speak. The way that farmers release a beneficial parasite or insect into the fields to wipe out something harmful. Perhaps Starbuck will come back with some knowledge on how to defeat the Cylons, or something that gives her an edge.

Hummm....

Like I said, I'm way out on a limb. But I have to think about something while I'm walking the 1.5 miles to and from home/work every day.

wink
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From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
No-one responded to my comment above.

I guess I blew your minds!!!
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From Sean Stubblefield
fascinating idea and analogy, Curtis. but the flaw is that Starbuck was "special" before all god's people went missing. but I think you're on to something with her being changed and returned to the tank. like Neo.
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
I think there are definitely very strong religious parallels in BSG. I view Adama (and to an extent Roslin) as Moses archetypes....leading their people to a new land/home from exile.

The next episode, The Son Also Rises with Baltar's trial seems to draw from Christ's final days. There are 12 Cylon copies (apostles). With the beard, Baltar is also looking a bit like the Christ figure.

Perhaps Starbuck is also a kind of saviour figure. She retrieved the Arrow of Apollo. Some of the stunts she performs are considered "miracles". She has a destiny. She has died....perhaps to be risen? Or is the non-Leoben perhaps there to provide temptation and lead her away from fulfilling her destiny?

"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."
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Official Comment From Jessica
Dipping in to talk Heroís Journey because it looks like many of us are circling the same notionÖ

Itís difficult to guess where they are going with so many storylines hanging open, but one way that makes sense in terms of the heroís journey paradigm is that Starbuck going into the Cylon territory would serve as an internal Cancer. Probably under the guise of aiding the Cylons in some way she will eventually aid their demise. Thatís a destiny if Iíve ever heard one, and it seems that given her trials and tribulations (something they continue to tout) she is prepared for such. (Forgive me: I donít want to go too into how that might work right now.)

Whatís "between life and deathĒ could very possibly be the atonement she achieved while nose-diving into the Maelstrom.

Heroís Journey (adventure steps as outlined by Joseph Campbell):
A bunch of shit and thenÖ.
The Meeting with The Goddess Ė Kobol/Tomb of Athena/Meeting of Sam
Woman as the Temptress Ė Starbuck & Sam/Starbuck & Lee/Love Triangles
Atonement With the Father Ė Near death atonement with mother.
Apotheosis Ė Where Starbuck is now/next?

This would put us toward the end of the second act in her arc/the storyís arc.

(And, Curt, if she comes back without any knowledge thatís crap so I think we are all right on that point. I still think that conflicts with what Gaiusí role should be, but maybe it fits together.)

Because this is episodic television, itís hard to nail down where they are. Sort of like trying to stop a movie of undetermined length in the middle and figure it out when even the writers havenít written the ending yet. Or like when I get feedback/guesses from you about Greyfeather. Also because itís TV, characters get stuck in stages for a long time while they are back-burnered and then brought forward again. Thereís only so much we can do with the information provided. We might in fact be earlier or later in that journey, or it could be handled badly and not as a heroís journey. We are working under an assumption that it will all make sense in the end, however. In terms of the heroís journey, you can also apply the same paradigm to Lee and all the major heroes (concretely, without a stretch) in the story. Even Gaius. That's part of what makes him so fun to watch. Heís the anti-hero, which is why his name is in the opening credits. Those are your leads/heroes in the series, for the most part (although since some of the Cylons split characters they are less of leads/heroes). As I said this is easier done when the story is complete.

Part of the reason that Sharon/Athena is currently so boring is that she traveled pretty far pretty fast and then bottomed out. Her return to the Cylon fold was quick (when she went back for Hera) and then she was gone in about five minutes. That might have been a large part of an episode in itself, especially over, oh say, that Helo/Medical episode. (I love Helo but we all know he is boring without Sharon/Hera conflict.) I think the writers might have separated Athena longer from humans and really tested her. I also expect she is due for a face off with Boomer, which they might have better foreshadowed. And is it just me or how the frack can one Cylon have another Cylonís memories when the first Cylon doesnít even know sheís a Cylon? Yeah we can imagine reasons why but am I right in saying they should have explained that and never did? I hope they do. That has been bothering me.

Also, in this season is it just me or are the kids the wrong age? Why are Nick and Hera like one year old when they should be older toddlers? (A: Because then they couldnít be props.)

In terms of all this ďthe oneĒ shit I have been waiting for them to lay a very obvious reluctant chosen one/hero story over Hera vs Gaius for sometime now. They keep talking about it and I'm all "so do it already." One thing that drives me bonkers is that they have so much shit going on. I do love lots of through lines, have loved it ever since I read Charles Dickensí A Tale of Two Cities and other such works, but sometimes Iím like pick a frackiní point or a few even, and letís handle that for a time. I also do not like the obvious filler episodes (sometimes badly written) they use while they prepare for the finale, but weíve discussed that before.

Again I think this is a stumbling block of television: Even the writers donít know how long theyíll be on air and how long they have to tell the story.

Final thoughts:
1. As a writer who employs understandings found via comparative mythology and religion a great deal, I do love BSGís "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."

Because itís true.

And, more importantly, these are stories and archetypes that existed before Christianity. The Big Question is; why is it all the same, linked, and what purpose does that serve for humanity? What does that say about humanity? Oh, I do love those questions! PS: If you guys like talking about this shit then you will love TSL.

2. I should mention that this is all off the top of my head and I donít have time to make a proper study of it as I usually prefer. Maybe you will do a better job of it. Remember: The stages as outlined by Campbell are archetypal and often not in a more clear, literal way such as in the case of, say, the original Star Wars trilogy. Sometimes the father figure is represented by something/someone else, et cetera. Depends on the character. Example in Gaiusí case his temptress could also be his Goddess in Caprica Six. There are better examples to be found. Do pardon my rush. It is also to be said that Campbellís work is best used in relation to other works and ideas, not as a sole guideline (as should all works be, especially those which address a comparative topic).

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_With_a_Thousand_Faces

Just saying: If you look closely at the chapter titles in the Dead Sto Scrolls, you will see these ďadventureĒ themes emerge.

Also (again): Since "12" has been brought up... There were 12 major Greek Gods on Olympus. You could make a case that the Cylons, each of which is an archetype that is supposed to represent a human archetype, mirror this idea. Much like the idea of how the Gods in Greece mirrored humanity.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Olympians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titans

From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
Also, in this season is it just me or are the kids the wrong age? Why are Nick and Hera like one year old when they should be older toddlers? (A: Because then they couldnít be props.)

This is something my wife always notices on all sorts of shows/movies, and now that I have a child I see it too. You are correct, Jess, in that they cannot really use an actual 6 month old as a prop.
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Official Comment From Jessica
Possible source material?:
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Return_of_Starbuck
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Beings_of_Light

Also, I listened to the RDM podcast for this one. I usually avoid podcasts and the like because I dislike spoilers/not figuring things out myself, but made an exception this time.

Interesting stuff there.

From CAE
maybe she is dead.. but is downloading into another. She could be a cylon...
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Official Comment From Jessica
So... The Son Also Rises didn't leave us with much to talk about.

From Rick
About all I can say about it is that the whole father vs son quote that Baltar read at the end of the episode made me roll my eyes. Didn't we already go down this Lee vs his daddy thread when the President had her little rebellion? I think this whole thread on the Baltar story is reaching, Ros should have tossed his ass out of the airlock from the get go like Tom advised her.
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Official Comment From Jessica
Completely agree on the Lee vs. his daddy point. We're just repeating beats. ...Unless they are foreshadowing Adama's fall (which has to happen eventually if we ever want to see Lee complete his arc). Iíd expect that moment to come at the end of the series, however. So I was bored. Especially when Lee and Adama were arguing. And I'm over the lawyer too. And Gaius being out of his mind in this new way when we haven't even dealt with the old way yet.

While I think the trial is required story, I don't know if it's three-episode finale material. Too bad they couldn't have done something more useful with those filler episodes.

From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
My life is on tape delay...I haven't gotten a chance to see it yet...I barely managed to watch 24 last night...
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From Rick
Concerning the completion of Lee's arc...I donít want to see it if it means the fall of daddy Adama. I am sick of every character having to reflect the flawed nature of humanity lately. Why does every hero have to be an anti-hero? I mean they killed Captain America (comic geek reference) for frak's sake. Letís change things up a bit shall we? How about Adama triumphantly leads the fleet back to earth, teams up with us to wipe out the toasters, gets it on with and marries the pres, and Lee just keeps on trucking or dies in a heroic manner. I want some real action in this show and I want some big battles, and I want them now! I guess Iím just a sucker for happy endings and big explosions, but if I wanted reality then I wouldnít be watching a bunch of fictional people fighting robots smart enough to nearly wipe out mankind but too stupid to design a stealth raider to sneak up and drop a nuke into the Galactica. Thus ends my rant. =)
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From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
How about Adama triumphantly leads the fleet back to earth,

I think that was called Galactia 1980 and it didn't do very well...

wink

I didn't like the new character being introduced just to be the mad bomber. He may have been on before, but I didn't recognize him so he was new to me. I'd been better if it was just some unknown/unseen person who they catch in the end. As soon as I saw that guy, I said "Where did he come from? Must be the bomber!"
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
Something warrants mention about BSG in general, as another example of excellence: its attention to detail. Every character exudes substance, regardless of screen time and position. One of Lampkin's escorts noticed the lock was tampered with and acted-- which not only demonstrates character competence but realism. In that moment, he became actualized. These are real people and not just living props or set decoration.

A minor character like Lampkin is fully realized, with intricate nuances. Notice when he speaks seriously about his wife, he reveals his eyes. His habit of observing people's nuances.

James Olmos commands. And I don't mean as Admiral.

I don't think repeating the theme of Lee diverging from Bill is a bad thing, and is actually quite realistic and necessary. Such entrenched psycho-dramas are not resolved in one story arc or by the end of an episode, and are likely to recur. That it is happening again is consistent with the established dynamic.

The Sam/ Lee "bonding" was cool. I hope this brings them together. But we need a Duala perspective.
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Official Comment From Jessica
Regarding Crossroads, Part 1:

"To be continued..."

Blast! Now I have to wait until Thursday to see the finale. Watching BSG via DVD is so, so much better: No waiting.

PS: Does anyone else feel like they often have no grip on who Dualla's character is? That "I'm leaving" scene? WTF.

PPS: Why is Anders still on the show?

From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
I get the impression that WE have no grip on who Duala's character is, because they've been enigmatic about revealing her. I suspect she'll coallesce soon enough.
I was disgusted with Lee for attacking Roslin to make his unfocused point, so it makes sense that Duala would want to not be around him. While I believe Lee is sincere in his desire for justice, his primary motivation is to distinguish himself: from his father, and his old life/self.
He's desperately trying to find/ re-invent himself... fumbling in the process. In the pursuit of integrity, he loses it.
"You don't understand!"
In his mind, it makes sense. I totally get what he's trying to do, and I empathize. I've been there. In a way, he's become Baltar.

And what's the deal with Saul and Sam being the only ones who hear the music? A drunken Saul bellows for someone to turn off the music.
"You're my oldest friend. You've never emabarrassed me."
I love this kind of character moment.

Something's happening with Torry, you watch. Or, at least, something should.

Lampkin's speach almost made me sympathetic to Baltar, you could almost justify his actions. Almost.
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From Nathanael
Website: http://ignorantcritics.wordpress.com
Rampant speculation/possible spoilers ahead:

I think Anders has been kept on the show for a very specific reason, and last night's episode only gave weight to my guess...until the previews for next week appeared. I wonder if we're going to see the final five next Sunday, and if their identities are revealed (even if only several) I have a few ideas as to who they could be.

I'm off to work, but I'll try to explain further when I get back.
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From Nathanael
Website: http://ignorantcritics.wordpress.com
For quite a while now, I've felt that Anders hasn't added much to the show (no disrespect intended to the actor). His relationship with Starbuck had pretty much ground to a halt at the beginning of the season, and even after Starbuck and Apollo supposedly worked out their differences, Sam/Kara still kept going at it with no relief in sight. He wasn't progressing the plot at all, and no matter how frustrated I've been with the producers this season, I still like to believe that they do things in BSG for a specific reason -- even if we don't see it at the time. And the strongest motive I could come up with for keeping Anders around (especially knowing about Starbuck's departure) was that Anders could possibly be a Cylon.

If the producers do show the final five next week, and we have never met any of the faces before, the reveal will have much less of an effect that it could have. Because by giving us the identities of the last remaining Cylons, the producers have effectively made us omniscient...especially with the growing certainty that the Cylons do not, in fact, have a plan (unlike what we're told at the beginning of each episode) and are merely winging it as they go along. The first season was full of paranoia, as people on the ship wondered which of their fellow crew members could possibly be a Cylon plotting the destruction of humanity. This kept everyone on a ragged edge, and brought quite a bite to the show.

But now, BSG seems to have settled into a holding pattern. The paranoia no longer grips everyone, and I believe that even with the Cylons nipping at their heels, people have grown complacent. I also think it was a mistake to spend so much of the second and third seasons aboard the Cylon basestars, because the show was most gripping when we knew as little as the humans did. BSG needs to bring back that element of surprise and uncertainty, and the only way they can do it is to reveal an existing member (or three) as Cylons. If they don't, and we see the five, we'll effectively be privy to the Cylons' opening gambit, middle, and endgame. No longer will they be able to lay plans and pull the rug out from under Galactica, leaving us just as shocked as the crew when the Cylon reveals him/herself to be the traitor amongst their midst. The audience needs to be guessing right along with everyone else, and the only way the producers can pull it off is to make one or more of the Five a familiar face. And wouldn't it be wonderful to have this person(s) be actively working behind Galactica's back all along?

I put forth Anders as a cylon only because he would be most convenient, plot-wise. And wasn't it his voice in the promo for next week proclaiming that "We're all Cylons?" But on my second viewing, once I realized that Saul, Anders, Tory, and Tyrol (missed him the first time around) all heard the music...well, that goes most of my theory. No way are the producers going to a) make all four Cylons, and b) make the connection so glaringly obvious. So the music has to play a different role; perhaps those four are somehow connected with destiny and finding Earth? I don't think Tyrol's story arc is over yet, just as I suspect Starbuck's bound to return someday (unless we really are meant to think that having a foretold destiny is a bunch of nonsense).

I'm still willing to bet that we get a reveal of at least one member of the Five in the season finale, because it will give BSG a much-needed adrenaline shot -- although the past several weeks have almost washed out the bitter taste that is much of Season 3. All I know is that I will be staying as far away from spoilers as I can until next Sunday evening.

And they had better convict Baltar, or I am going to need to buy a new television set Monday morning.

Sorry for the long-windedness...
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Official Comment From Jessica
SciFi had us sign an NDA for the finale screening, then went ahead and sent screeners (of parts one and two) to what seems to be everyone I know in Hollywood.

I find that very amusing.

I wonít be reading or posting anymore about the show itself until after the finale airs because I donít want to be spoilered, I donít want to spoiler you and, of course, Iíd like to be sensitive to the paperwork.

So, Iím not ignoring the discussion, but it is all yours (for now).

From Curtis M Sawyer
Website: http://ussexcalibur.blogspot.com
Does anyone else feel like they often have no grip on who Dualla's character is?
I get the impression they wrote themselves into a corner, then added the love triangle, and now they are trying to figure out how to end her relationship with Lee, probably in preparation for the return of Starbuck.

And what's the deal with Saul and Sam being the only ones who hear the music?
Next week's preview made it apparent this question will be answered next week.

"You're my oldest friend. You've never embarrassed me."
Don't know that I bought this line. What about his impassioned speech earlier in the season for Saul to get his ass in gear?

Some thing's happening with Torry
I believe it is tied into the music. Something is affecting crew members on a mental level.

I have to go so I can't write any more thoughts, but it looks like (from the preview) that next week will kick the action up a notch.
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Official Comment From Jessica
How fucking awesome is Crossroads Part II, the season finale of Battlestar Galactica?

C.Sto and I saw it last night, and it is so awesome that you are going to flip your grip at the end. In many ways, itís unlike previous BSG episodes: More like watching the end of the second act of a film.

Iím under a non-disclosure agreement about the episode until it airs, so you can bet that as soon as it airs Eastern Time I will be back to talk about the show in detail.

Seriously, the episode is so awesome that I feel bad for people who donít watch the show, because they are really, really missing out.

From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
Does it air on Saturday in the U.S., because up here in the frigid north it airs on Sunday? It used to be on Saturdays. Then again, we used to be a season behind.

What the frak?
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From szark
@Dave: No, it airs on Sunday here too.

Well, if J.Sto is this excited, it must be good. I'll certainly be watching it live.
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From Nathanael
Website: http://ignorantcritics.wordpress.com
Darn you Jessica, now I'm even more excited than I already was. Can't wait till Sunday...
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Official Comment From Jessica
OK! Post Crossroads pt II, let's start with Tigh:

How is it possible that he's a Cylon?

Do Cylons age? I thought they didn't. I mean, he's too old, no? Given that he knew Adama through the first war? And has aged with him through life? He was around before the human Cylon models, and before the rebellion, right?

And no, I don't think Starbuck is a Cylon. Never have. I'm going with the "higher being" theory, which has been my theory all along.

Anders and Tori were on my "possible Cylons" list (although I admit that prior to this episode, over Tori, I had a secret hope that Billy would come back and turn out to be a Cylon). The Chief was not on my list because I figured having another hybrid baby took away from Hera's story. But hey I guess they have to get started sometime with more of that generation.

If for some reason all four of them are not Cylons, that will be hella lame (I don't think they'd do that, anyway). I'm just curious about how it's possible for Tigh to be included. Most likely none of his history was early enough to have witnesses like Adama, and he was simply programmed with false history like Boomer. I'd have to watch some episodes again to figure that out.

Much of what's on the wiki is from deleted scenes. I don't watch deleted scenes so I haven't seen them:
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh

From Nathanael
Website: http://ignorantcritics.wordpress.com
Okay, I guess I have to take back what I wrote last week, about the producers not revealing four at the same time. Although, I still have my doubts about all of them being Cylons; after all, we have no confirmation of that other than what they said upon entering the room. I just don't know how TPTB can explain away the music connection without it sounding really lame, like Jess said.

Other than that, though...holy crap! That was an amazing episode, especially Lee's defense of Baltar. I kept hearing things all week about Badger calling a surprise witness to the stand, but the last person I would have picked was Apollo. After he finished his speech, I was struck by how neatly he summarized all of the issues that have been plaguing Galactica's crew all season. Everyone has been flirting with healing and forgiveness and moving forward, but Apollo's speech jumped right into bed with it.

Now I feel like going back and watching all three seasons over again...holy crap, that was a good show.
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From Nathanael
Website: http://ignorantcritics.wordpress.com
Also, if Tyrol, Saul, Tori and Anders are four of the final five, who's the fifth? I'm not going with Starbuck either, so where does that leave us? Roslin was in the chamber hall with Hera, Sharon and Six...but the last scene shows Baltar holding the baby.
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
Here I sit. Tired and cranky in front of my computer at work. Stayed up past my bedtime to watch BSG, and then couldn't sleep because of the questions. Oh, the questions. And the mixed feelings.

I loved the conclusion of the trial. I thought that the monologue/testimony given by Lee was superb. A great piece of work on the writer's part. I wouldn't say Lee is my favourite character of the series, but he is certainly the one that I most identify with personally. He, above all others, I think, is the voice of morality in the show. He is the one who shines the light in to the dark corners of the human psyche....the one who holds up the mirror and says, "Stop. Look." This is important, because this show isn't really about space ships and battles, but about the duality of the human spirit. It's greatness, and it's darkest shame.

Gaeta. Why did he perjure himself? What was the motive? Pressure from the administration? Attempt to redeem himself after initially being thought a traitor himself? There did not appear to be any guilt in the act. He appeared almost smug and defiant.

I loved Baltar's reversal of attitude following his acquittal. It shows how truly fickle the character is.

Now onto the matter of the Cylon reveal. Or was it? I'm confused. Like Jess implies, it always looked like Saul and Bill had a fairly lengthy history, so how is that reconciled? It's not like he's in an entry level position....he's the XO. He's been with the military for some time. And what are the chances that the Cylons had the forethought to have 3 "sleeper" agents (Tight, Tyrol, Boomer) on the Galactica, one of the only ships to escape the planned genocide of the human race? Three on Galactica, none on Pegasus? What is the meaning of the music? Why are their (supposed) toaster brains picking it up? Why reveal four of the final 5 Cylon copies in such an utterly undramatic fashion? Personally, I'm not quite buying it. It has the feel of a red herring for me. I wasn't really impressed with that aspect of the show.

As for the return of Starbuck, it didn't come as a great surprise for me. I fully expected to see her back before the finale. Where did she get the Viper, though? Didn't hers disintigrate when she 'died'? Did she get a Viper from Earth? Curious.

And it was nice to hear some music finally on the show. As a sister society, the colonials seems a little stagnant in the culture department. wink

Hope to see some more discussion here about what others thought of the episode.
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From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
Holy Frak! I actually said that out loud as the episode ended.
Love that song.

Sam, Saul, Torri, Galen... you'll notice that there are only four, and I see that as a deliberate clue that they are not only NOT Cylons, but NOT the Final Five. Something else is going on here. It will have something to do with getting home/ the 13th tribe. Each of them are tied to people with links to Earth: Sam/Kara, Torri/Roslyn, Galen/the Temple, Saul/Bill?.

I am grateful Lee redeemed himself the way he did, and claimed the integrity he so wanted.
However, I believe Baltar IS guilty and should be unforgiven (I'd have taken the bullet to the head rather than sign. I couldn't live with my self afterward otherwise). Now Baltar has become a cult religious figure. I still say he's a Final Five Cylon.

Sama and Torri? Never saw that coming.

Gaeta wants Baltar dead, just as Saul does. That's why he lied. But why does he want Baltar dead? Because of the crimes? Or because of what Baltar is/ what he knows/ what he might do? Because Gaeta is a Cylon trying to hide something?
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com/
Of interest?

Interview with RDM
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Official Comment From Jessica
Nice link.

- Jamie Bamber wrote some bits of the Lee speech himself (thatís what the Chief said).
- I thought the Cylon reveal was dramatic. It worked for me. Much more than the reveal of Lucy Lawless as a Cylon and some others.
- The show has a great track record in terms of what they leave out, but we never saw Caprica Six testify against Baltar. Thoughts?
- What did you think of the usage of the Bob Dylan tune?
- Everyone thinks Gaeta is a Cylon. Maybe thatís why heís not. If I were going to write a spec, Iíd write a Gaeta episode. It would not be what you think.
- I doubt that Baltar is a Cylon, but who knows: The writers donít even know until they write it, such as in the case of these four Cylon reveals.
- Someone should look up how to spell Toriís name: We have at least three version on here and I am too tired. (Itís true.)
- Do you think the other Cylons will try to kill Hera? Or affect her in some way the other characters in the vision wouldnít agree with?
- I laughed at this, all the cool people did: ďEveryone knows, the whole fleet knows this man tried to stab me through the neck. And you missed, Butterfingers!Ē

From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://exastra23.deviantart.com/gallery/
-isnít it irresponsible of the four to return to stations, instead of isolating themselves, if they think they are Cylons? Considering what happened with Sharon. ďYou can count on meĒ?

-donít like the Bob Dylan song, but I love the BSG version.

-ok, Torriís name is actually spelled: Tory Foster.

-I donít think the Cylons in general care whether Hera (the abomination) lives or dies. They donít believe in her destiny. On some level, Six (and Laura and Sharon) ďknowsĒ Hera is important to Cylon future/evolutionó that is why she want to protect. If the Cylons wanted Hera dead, they had plenty of opportunity.

-Six didnít testify because sheís a Cylon: She canít be trusted. And maybe they donít want the general public to know they have a Cylon captive?
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From Dave Grant
Website: http://www.divergingroad.blogspot.com
Wow. Is that the final five revealed? Spamtastic.

Speaking of....the scene where Six looks back and up during the opera house dream sequence.....does anyone thing the 5 glowing (seemingly cloaked) figures could represent Beings of Light?
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Official Comment From Jessica
I listed that Beings of Light wiki entry a while back because I thought they might be using that as some sort of source material.

(The spam is gone and the spammers blocked: This entry is getting a lot of search hits and thus, spam.)

From Sean Stubblefield
Website: http://www.geocities.com/exastra/home.htm
I'd rather these four "Cylons" be Beings of Light-- along with Kara, instead of "special" Cylons.

How about this: Laura Roslin= Cylon. Responding to her shared vision, Six says "That shouldn't be possible." And it isn't... unless Laura is a Cylon. One of the Final 5, with Gaius. That's an irony.
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Official Comment From Jessica
That is a better choice (given what we know). Makes more sense.

Although, we'd have problems with Laura as a Cylon for the same reasons as Tigh: She has too much history. She was a part of the government and wouldn't that take time in life to get to, politically? Why wouldn't they use her over the Six to get access to the defense systems? Things of that nature. And do Cylons get cancer?

From Nathanael
Website: http://ignorantcritics.wordpress.com
If Laura is one of the final five, it would make sense that the Cylons wouldn't have used her previously. After all, they don't know the identities of the five, do they?

I'm leaning more towards the "Lords of Kobol/descendants" theory for Tyrol and the others. It would fit extremely well with the Chief's actions on New Caprica, defending the Temple of Jupiter.

I have a feeling that Ron Moore would lie through his teeth to protect the secrets for BSG. But what if the Lords of Kobol are Cylons? Would that even be possible?
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Official Comment From Jessica
You mean like (thinking aloud):

The Lords of Kobol are Cylons lording over humans, the humans/rebel peace out, then the humans create Cylons and lord over them, the Cylons rebel/peace out... some sort of never ending circle?

It would be an interesting commentary on creating something "in the image" of "God" and also on what a being determines is "God"/it's creator. However, having the Cylons as the Lords of Kobol is a little too cute and story incestuous. And what about all that, ďthere were these Lords of Kobol, except on jealous God went his own way etc. etc.Ē stuff? (I need to re-watch those episodes if weíre really going to get specific.) It's more likely that this "higher being" idea we keep circling is the key for those four and Starbuck. So then we've got five higher humans and five higher Cylons. Maybe the higher humans will seek Hera's demise, and the final Cylons will want to protect her... So much speculation on our parts! Or maybe the Chief is a Cylon and we have to just get over it. I donít get the ďspecial CylonĒ thing that RDM is saying. Who knows what that means. There arenít enough concrete rules about the religion for us to make solid predictions.

And, RDM is already more forthcoming then I'd be about details were it my story, but yes I'd expect him to protect the story as much as possible. (You know me: I'm all about purity in storytelling/would rather watch things unfold.)

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Twelve_Colonies

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